Alterac Valley Pre-made
I've always counted myself lucky at having rolled Horde on Gorefiend. Generally Horde dominated all battlegrounds with the exception of AV. That has all changed, however, with the advent of the AV pre-made generally lead by Drakee (Justrun).
By using AV enabler and vent Gorefiend is able to run full 40-man raids into AV and dominate. It is tremendous fun and I think it is a very healthy concept for PvP. As I've been participating in Gorefiend AV pre-mades for over a month now I have had ample time to make some observations.
1. The Horde is learning as a collective.
It is rare that all 40 people within the pre-made actually get into one AV and, unfortunately, the remainder is filled out with PUG's. These PUG's are clearly relaying the pre-made strategy to other people on their server and the concept of how to win an AV is spreading. I have participated in PUG's that have used the exact same strategy as the pre-made, followed it accordingly, and won... I thought it was a fluke until I saw it again... and again... and again. Of course you get the majority of people doing the mindless zerg offense rush, but all you need is 15 defenders and a little direction on the offense and the game is yours.
2. The Alliance is learning as a collective.
I'm sure the Alliance is incredibly frustrated at loosing every BG on a fairly consistent basis. Up until now, at least they had AV... now they don't. Some suggest that it's a fluke... I don't believe that ti is. I believe that word of the Horde side pre-mades on vindication is spreading and they are adapting. It is inevitable. One day, a full 40-man horde pre-made will lose to a 40-man alliance PUG.
3. Mages on D > mages on O.
There's really only one way to dismount the alliance who try and "run the gauntlet" and that's through polymorph. Some get through the chokepoint and some of the D has to go back and do some cleanup work. It's a pain and can sometimes result in slowing down the game. If I were the pre-made leader I would make sure there were at least 4 mages on D at the choke at all times.
4. Shit needs to go faster between queues.
We're often sitting there for 5 or 10 minutes between queue's grabbing replacements to fill those who drop out and making sure a good majority gets into an AV. There are people CONSTANTLY spamming to get into the pre-made. There is no reason at all that it should take 10 minutes to fill up. I suspect Drakee (Justrun) doesn't pay very good attention to who's whispering him trying to get in.
5. People need to be less retarded about standing no the battlemaster.
Yes you can Shift + V and select the Battlemaster more easily but not everyone knows this. I don't care about being stubborn and standing on the Battlemaster so you can say; "LRN 2 SHFT+V LOL". Stop being retarded. Just move off him so people who don't know how to do that can open the AV queue and we can play!
6. More specific direction should be given.
It is my opinion that if more direction were given, specifically on offense, the games would go faster. We generally start with 4 or 5 groups on offense. If we have 4 groups, one can hit SH bunker, one can hit IW bunker, two can hit Balinda then move to reinforce the bunkers. Then, when the bunkers are capped everyone can move together as a group on the high road toward SP GY and the north and south towers.
That's my opinion on the situation. It's tremendous fun and I will continue to participate in the Gorefiend AV premade. I encourage everyone who participates to try and take on a roll of leadership within AV PUGS to spread the AV strategy through all of vindication.
Tagged with: Alterac Valley, Gorefiend, Horde, PvP, Vindication, World of Warcraft
5 Comments
Sure, tremendously fun. And unfair. Hopefully Blizz puts an end to premades soon. Alliance is so hopeless in BG we need one where we can win or there would be no world pvp. You'd be pvping against your own faction eventually, Alliance wouldn't bother.
Posted on 02/ 4/08 | Reply
It was once possible to queue as group into AV as it is with every other BG. This option was removed, in large part, because Battlegroups did not exist and singe guilds dominated an entire server’s AV… server’s were simply not large enough, individually, to sustain more than one or two AV’s at a time. With the introduction of Battlegroups this is no longer an issue and I hope Blizzard will implement the option to queue as a group into AV soon.
By your logic, that the option to queue as unfair, should the option to queue as a group into Eots, AB, and WsG be removed? It IS unfair, after all.
Posted on 02/ 5/08 | Reply
Apples and oranges. That's not my logic, you're comparing 40 with 10 or 15, it not the same at all. A premade of 40 players is a huge advantage over 40 random (mostly contradicting each other on what to do!) players. It's an advantage in the 10 and 15 BG also but no where near the same lvl of advantage. 10 or 15 players can be seen and followed by ppl that don't know what to do, even without comunication, 40 not so much. AV is more complex then just grabbing a flag also. So even if it was a 15 man somehow, it would still be different.
Sorry, the button to que as a group was removed from AV, so don't pretend to yourself it's okay because you found a way around it. It's cheating, not playing the game the way it was intended and I hope it taints your easy victories. If the button to que as a group was put back in for AV it would make it MORE fair because you wouldn't need 40 ppl to have a specific mod installed and jump through hoops to get in at once. You'll still see more Horde premades then Alliance just because Horde seems to like pvp more.
I don't know why Horde is so much better in BG but it sucks the way it is. Maybe it's just the personality that is attracted to the horde is also attracted to pvp. If you wanna play an ugly toon like the horde was before the BC you're probably a bit more ruthless and interested in crushing your enemies then someone that plays a cute little Alliance toon. Maybe the Horde got the upper hand early on and alliance can't catch up and we can't compete with their gear and their better knowledge of pvp anymore. They probably totally deserve to be better and to have the better gear but the pvp system is broken and this is a game, not real life. If the game is broken you need to fix it or no one will play.
D
Posted on 02/11/08 | Reply
It is my opinion that a 40-man pre-made is just as strong an advantage as a 15 or 10 man pre-made. The added complexity of AV balances out against the effort it takes to coordinate 40 people. I don’t think I’ll be able to convince you though so I’ll respect your opinion and leave it at that.
I whole-heartedly support the “queue as group” button being added back in to the AV BG. I would love to see how a Horde pre-made stacks up against an alliance pre-made and I think it would make for some extremely fun matches. I agree that it is unfair, not because horde is “better” at PvP, but because Alliance can’t form pre-mades because their AV queue’s are full. I hope, very much, that the “queue as group” button is added back in as a result of the Alliance loudly complaining that it’s unfair. Argue as you may about what we “SHOULD” do, the fact is, the horde will not stop queuing AV pre-mades as log as it’s possible.
I’m not sure why Horde seems to be better at PvP than Alliance. You could be right about the personality but, if that’s the case, the imbalance isn’t a game mechanic and can’t be fixed. I will say that, toe to toe, I’ve killed 2 alliance of comparable gear at the same time on more than one occasion. This may be, in part, because I’m a hunter or because I’m a decent player…but ultimately, the alliance I fight seem to need to develop PvP skill because the Horde are never going to let up.
Posted on 02/11/08 | Reply
Yeah, I don't think AV compares at all to the other BGs so we'll just disagree on that.
While I hate the fact that the Horde wins all the BGs besides AV, and the fact that they do premades in AV to win there also, I wonder why the Horde loses most all the AV's where they are not premade. In pug vs pug matches I have to say Alliance wins 80%+ of the ones I'm in. Makes no sense in light of the normal Horde superiority. You even had your starting area closer to Balinda then ours is to Galv. (changing in next patch). There must be some other factor that makes if harder for you. So naturally you wouldn't want to lose in AV all the time just like we don't like losing in all the other BGs. But unless I really believed there was an imbalance in the game that wasn't being address by Blizz I wouldn't use the mods to do premades like you are doing. Cheating would make it all worthless to me. I see posts suggesting a perfectly mirrored battlefield and that is probably the issue/resolution.
I think you're right that the imbalance isn't a game mechanic, it's more a player/personality imbalance. But there must be something that can be done. Mixing the factions for pvp would work but piss off 99% of the Horde and go against most of the lore of the game. They could at least increase the losers honor and maybe award 2 marks for losing. That might bring out more alliance to play pvp. Or that might bring out more losers that want to sit afk and get honor without helping.
To be honest I'm pretty bored with AV because if it's not the weekend, I don't see many premades and we win pretty easily. Not much fun. Aren't you kinda bored in the other BGs? They are just frustrating for me. Two weeks ago when it was AB daily I lost 23 in a row before wining 1. And I won that one because we were about half premade and on vent. Then we lost the next one :) I was going to quit after about 10 but just kept going kinda out of morbid curiosity. That's what pvp is like for an Alliance player. I try to educate while in BGs and even outside in Shatt while waiting in the que. I posted a link to a page of EotS strategy before the last bonus weekend and said plz read! All we have is flag monkeys that think we can win with 1 tower and capping the flag. I was talking about premades in chat and said more people should post on the forums about how unfair they are. Wow, nothing but excuses and people saying it won't matter what you do...don't bother to post, Blizz doesn't listen. Some told me to just quit pvp! I said "ok and you quit the part of the game you like most too..but keep playing". Losers. Anyway, nice talking to you about this. I may try to post this discussion on the official forums or somewhere else if it's ok with you. Or how about I start a thread there and come back and post a link here for you?
D
Posted on 02/13/08 | Reply
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